No, that's not me crying and pouting because the menu at McNet is being changed in order to match the healthier diet found in the offline world. I am But Of Course talking about all those unimaginative users who are getting hysterical at the thought of one way or another having to act more or less as responsibly when plugged into the internut as they do when they are busy obeying the laws of the land in the offline world.
In case you haven't heard or don't remember, our elected government (who I didn't vote for - well, other than a vote for Family First first, and the Evil Greens last) made a promise to all who elected them (all those "working families" busy wage slaving for double incomes to pay off their negative equity and too busy to have a parent at home being, well, A Parent, and so in dire need of KRudd and Co to be defacto parents to their children instead) that something would be done to make teh McWeb a safer place for the kiddies to be ... as well as bringing it more into line with the laws of the land in relation to illegal stuff and activities as the offline world.
Enter the ISP-Level Filtering System (a bit like what the likes of Blue Coat Systems do but on a national level. Here is a link about BlueCoat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Coat_Systems )
The idea of it is to try and stop illegal material coming in, going around, or going out of the country via the internut. Sure, it is going to be difficult (actually, impossible) to get it working with 100% accuracy and without a degree of system overhead and impact, but does that mean it shouldn't be attempted ? Does that mean we should continue to persue, prevent, and prosecute illegal material and activity in the offline world of law and order only to make no attempt to tame virtual anarchy and lawlessness ?
It seems somewhat incongruous and hypocritical to me that most of us in Oz want to live in a safe country with law and order and are generally willing to act responsibly enough to make it work to a reasonable degree yet at the same time want "anything goes and damn the torpedoes" when plugged into the McNet.
Anyway, I am in principal, in support of attempts to bring into line online material and activities in Oz with the laws of the land which we have a responsibility and obligation to support if we really are interested in being worthwhile citizens.
Over at whirlpool's forums on the topic (see http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1075390 ) I'm reading a lot of "they r taking away my freeeedom" type stuff, along with a whole load of frothy hysteria, but sadly, from this alleged typical representation of internut users, I'm not seeing much in the way of anyone willing to support the prevention of illegal material, nor even begin to think of ways to take our global communications systems to new levels that benefit the whole globe (such as those locked away behind the Great Firewall of China).
It really has become the McWeb/McNet for them ... and Baby Wants It Now !
Anyway, I must get back over to whirlpool and continue to try and reason the hysterical and fanatical back down to some sort of useful ground, so I'll close off this entry with a message posted to the yahoogroups ozltuae list last night.
SOQ
>>> richary: Not quite sure if he (derspatz) is just playing devil's advocate or not
>> derspatz: Not even in the slightest.
> richary: Yes you are proposing a Gibsonesque world where everyone can jack in wherever and whenever they want. Now let's look at the real agenda you are pushing as you always have.
Breaking down the Great Firewall of China ? Getting people to see a bigger picture ?
> Which I obviously can't bring up in WP (whirlpool).
Tis certainly pretty trigger happy on the "filtering" side at WP ! Thank goodness we can let our hair down a bit here. So, let's party ! :)
Somewhat ironic considering the topic ...
> The End Times are coming
Don't worry, Obama the Messiah will save you ... well, at least appear to for a while. :)
> in the meantime lets create as much destruction and chaos as possible
Ah, so THAT's why I'm continually giving what has amounted to many thousands of dollars to Israel so that their kids can be fed and clothed and their aged can be properly housed and have hot water and their soldiers can have warm clothing and care packages and Jewish believers in Yeshua Ha Mashaiach can be compensated for things being denied to them bytheir fellow Jews in their own country merely because they dare to say "hey, we got it wrong about our brother Jesus - He is our messiah after all and silly us went and got him killed ...".
You've gone and exposed my true motivation for my giving of my not so hard earned - I'm busy sowing the seeds of chaos and destruction so Jesus will come and rescue me sooner ! (rolls eyes)
If what you are suggesting is the case, then I must have one weird interpretation of Luke chapter 12 going ... especially verse 43..
> those are the fore runners of those times. Of course, you can't do that by being nasty to anyone or hurting them as that would be a sin.
Isn't living with/sleeping in the same bed as someone who isn't one's wife a sin too ? Whatever happened to in for a penny, in for a pound ?
> let's just do it by stirring the pot for a reaction. Or as it was put on WP, trolling. Subtle trolling of course, given your skills learnt here over many years. But I recognise it for what it is, as does Mark (Newton).
(sigh) and yet if I shared the same opinions as you or Mark and the wailing mostly selfish and ignorant masses expressing their irrational fears of having their daily poisons intake reduced, there would be no mention of stirring or trolling. Kinda sad (and telling) that a well reasoned, coherent, and consistent opinion that also happens to be at odds with the majority of participants in that thread, is chosen to be viewed as trolling or stirring, mind you.
Hmmm, who are the Fanatical Religious Zealots, now, Richary ?
What I am finding even more disturbing about what I am seeing at WP, is a spoilt, selfish, "it is mine by right", and "how dare I be required to do/sacrifice/lift a finger", "what do you mean by 'responsibilities'" attitude, along with utter apathy in relation to do anything other than complain.
The spirit in there isn't about pioneering the internut into something new and better that benefits us all ... it is instead all about having what basically boils down to having a McNet to go along with every other Mcthis'n'that the Gen-likewhatevers are all about these days.
Things that make me go "Bah."
Things that also inspire me to calmly address with a basic logical yet visionary approach that exposes the fanaticisms being expressed for what they are and instead attempts to bring things back to a useful middle ground.
> But you are pushing the wrong barrow. As I recall from many years ago of bible studies it is the destruction of Israel that will bring about the rapture.
You're not trying to teach your grandma how to suck gravel there are you richary ?
> And think about the possibilities. Hypothetically a Muslim based party gains control of the Senate and deems Christian sites unacceptable. Well damn, you guys have already let the technology in so all of a sudden every Christian webpage is on the blacklist. Bad luck, you have made your own grave so lie in it. Yes it's an unlikely scenario but once the technology is in place then anything is possible.
And this is supposed to bother me because ? You do remember that you are talking to someone who finds very little (if anything) to be sacred in this world, and someone who not only isn't an idolatrous book worshipper, but rather is a self confessed book burner as circumstances dictate, along with someone who wrote message filtering and processing software for FIDOnet ?
"Empire" - Echo Mail Packet Incisive Record Extractor and all that. :)
Considering that and remembering the kinds of things I was vocally against back in FIDO days of LTUAE and the other echos, it should be of no surprise to you that I would in principal be in support of Government control of illegal material online (and more besides), so there really is no need to be making silly appeals to a notion of "I'm trying to bring about amageddon" ...
Besides, I've nearly ALWAYS been about working towards the return of Yeshua Ha Mashaiach for Him to do His "rule with a rod of iron" thing (ie, more filters), but these days I've settled upon helping Israel with my finances as being the most effective way of achieving it.
> Of course until your dream of a free from any interference "cyberspace" is possible. So instead of criticising the freedoms we have now, why don't you get off you backside and try to help design it?
You missed the suggestions I've already made about using short-hop wireless devices independent of ISPs and telcos (etc) to constantly packet forward distributed net style ? On the amateurish pirate/stealing side of things, maybe something could be made to piggyback on the mobile network in the short term by way of behind the scenes development.
Oh, and that's the other problem I'm having with most of the "waa, waa, waa" brigade on WP.
The scary lack of imagination.
Ah, that's better. I've been feeling so stifled for free and unfettered expression over the last few days at WP.
Cheers richary, for flipping the cap on that one. :)
regarDS
In case you haven't heard or don't remember, our elected government (who I didn't vote for - well, other than a vote for Family First first, and the Evil Greens last) made a promise to all who elected them (all those "working families" busy wage slaving for double incomes to pay off their negative equity and too busy to have a parent at home being, well, A Parent, and so in dire need of KRudd and Co to be defacto parents to their children instead) that something would be done to make teh McWeb a safer place for the kiddies to be ... as well as bringing it more into line with the laws of the land in relation to illegal stuff and activities as the offline world.
Enter the ISP-Level Filtering System (a bit like what the likes of Blue Coat Systems do but on a national level. Here is a link about BlueCoat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Coat_Systems )
The idea of it is to try and stop illegal material coming in, going around, or going out of the country via the internut. Sure, it is going to be difficult (actually, impossible) to get it working with 100% accuracy and without a degree of system overhead and impact, but does that mean it shouldn't be attempted ? Does that mean we should continue to persue, prevent, and prosecute illegal material and activity in the offline world of law and order only to make no attempt to tame virtual anarchy and lawlessness ?
It seems somewhat incongruous and hypocritical to me that most of us in Oz want to live in a safe country with law and order and are generally willing to act responsibly enough to make it work to a reasonable degree yet at the same time want "anything goes and damn the torpedoes" when plugged into the McNet.
Anyway, I am in principal, in support of attempts to bring into line online material and activities in Oz with the laws of the land which we have a responsibility and obligation to support if we really are interested in being worthwhile citizens.
Over at whirlpool's forums on the topic (see http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1075390 ) I'm reading a lot of "they r taking away my freeeedom" type stuff, along with a whole load of frothy hysteria, but sadly, from this alleged typical representation of internut users, I'm not seeing much in the way of anyone willing to support the prevention of illegal material, nor even begin to think of ways to take our global communications systems to new levels that benefit the whole globe (such as those locked away behind the Great Firewall of China).
It really has become the McWeb/McNet for them ... and Baby Wants It Now !
Anyway, I must get back over to whirlpool and continue to try and reason the hysterical and fanatical back down to some sort of useful ground, so I'll close off this entry with a message posted to the yahoogroups ozltuae list last night.
SOQ
>>> richary: Not quite sure if he (derspatz) is just playing devil's advocate or not
>> derspatz: Not even in the slightest.
> richary: Yes you are proposing a Gibsonesque world where everyone can jack in wherever and whenever they want. Now let's look at the real agenda you are pushing as you always have.
Breaking down the Great Firewall of China ? Getting people to see a bigger picture ?
> Which I obviously can't bring up in WP (whirlpool).
Tis certainly pretty trigger happy on the "filtering" side at WP ! Thank goodness we can let our hair down a bit here. So, let's party ! :)
Somewhat ironic considering the topic ...
> The End Times are coming
Don't worry, Obama the Messiah will save you ... well, at least appear to for a while. :)
> in the meantime lets create as much destruction and chaos as possible
Ah, so THAT's why I'm continually giving what has amounted to many thousands of dollars to Israel so that their kids can be fed and clothed and their aged can be properly housed and have hot water and their soldiers can have warm clothing and care packages and Jewish believers in Yeshua Ha Mashaiach can be compensated for things being denied to them bytheir fellow Jews in their own country merely because they dare to say "hey, we got it wrong about our brother Jesus - He is our messiah after all and silly us went and got him killed ...".
You've gone and exposed my true motivation for my giving of my not so hard earned - I'm busy sowing the seeds of chaos and destruction so Jesus will come and rescue me sooner ! (rolls eyes)
If what you are suggesting is the case, then I must have one weird interpretation of Luke chapter 12 going ... especially verse 43..
> those are the fore runners of those times. Of course, you can't do that by being nasty to anyone or hurting them as that would be a sin.
Isn't living with/sleeping in the same bed as someone who isn't one's wife a sin too ? Whatever happened to in for a penny, in for a pound ?
> let's just do it by stirring the pot for a reaction. Or as it was put on WP, trolling. Subtle trolling of course, given your skills learnt here over many years. But I recognise it for what it is, as does Mark (Newton).
(sigh) and yet if I shared the same opinions as you or Mark and the wailing mostly selfish and ignorant masses expressing their irrational fears of having their daily poisons intake reduced, there would be no mention of stirring or trolling. Kinda sad (and telling) that a well reasoned, coherent, and consistent opinion that also happens to be at odds with the majority of participants in that thread, is chosen to be viewed as trolling or stirring, mind you.
Hmmm, who are the Fanatical Religious Zealots, now, Richary ?
What I am finding even more disturbing about what I am seeing at WP, is a spoilt, selfish, "it is mine by right", and "how dare I be required to do/sacrifice/lift a finger", "what do you mean by 'responsibilities'" attitude, along with utter apathy in relation to do anything other than complain.
The spirit in there isn't about pioneering the internut into something new and better that benefits us all ... it is instead all about having what basically boils down to having a McNet to go along with every other Mcthis'n'that the Gen-likewhatevers are all about these days.
Things that make me go "Bah."
Things that also inspire me to calmly address with a basic logical yet visionary approach that exposes the fanaticisms being expressed for what they are and instead attempts to bring things back to a useful middle ground.
> But you are pushing the wrong barrow. As I recall from many years ago of bible studies it is the destruction of Israel that will bring about the rapture.
You're not trying to teach your grandma how to suck gravel there are you richary ?
> And think about the possibilities. Hypothetically a Muslim based party gains control of the Senate and deems Christian sites unacceptable. Well damn, you guys have already let the technology in so all of a sudden every Christian webpage is on the blacklist. Bad luck, you have made your own grave so lie in it. Yes it's an unlikely scenario but once the technology is in place then anything is possible.
And this is supposed to bother me because ? You do remember that you are talking to someone who finds very little (if anything) to be sacred in this world, and someone who not only isn't an idolatrous book worshipper, but rather is a self confessed book burner as circumstances dictate, along with someone who wrote message filtering and processing software for FIDOnet ?
"Empire" - Echo Mail Packet Incisive Record Extractor and all that. :)
Considering that and remembering the kinds of things I was vocally against back in FIDO days of LTUAE and the other echos, it should be of no surprise to you that I would in principal be in support of Government control of illegal material online (and more besides), so there really is no need to be making silly appeals to a notion of "I'm trying to bring about amageddon" ...
Besides, I've nearly ALWAYS been about working towards the return of Yeshua Ha Mashaiach for Him to do His "rule with a rod of iron" thing (ie, more filters), but these days I've settled upon helping Israel with my finances as being the most effective way of achieving it.
> Of course until your dream of a free from any interference "cyberspace" is possible. So instead of criticising the freedoms we have now, why don't you get off you backside and try to help design it?
You missed the suggestions I've already made about using short-hop wireless devices independent of ISPs and telcos (etc) to constantly packet forward distributed net style ? On the amateurish pirate/stealing side of things, maybe something could be made to piggyback on the mobile network in the short term by way of behind the scenes development.
Oh, and that's the other problem I'm having with most of the "waa, waa, waa" brigade on WP.
The scary lack of imagination.
Ah, that's better. I've been feeling so stifled for free and unfettered expression over the last few days at WP.
Cheers richary, for flipping the cap on that one. :)
regarDS
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